tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2657266526705426756.post8129779963311584042..comments2024-03-26T04:58:54.326-04:00Comments on The Wandering Gamist: I Miss Vancian Castingjedavishttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08586249502818922886noreply@blogger.comBlogger6125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2657266526705426756.post-39006916766571075592012-12-05T12:24:12.146-05:002012-12-05T12:24:12.146-05:00That is a very interesting idea with the scrolls! ...That is a very interesting idea with the scrolls! I kind of like that. May have to steal and adapt; I like how it puts the focus on spell acquisition.<br /><br />And yeah, there are odd causal issues with magic item creation, even in ACKS. The whole domain income threshold thing means that it's very hard for casters to get appreciable XP for their creations unless they sell them, which is likewise nontrivial. Could use some work.jedavishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08586249502818922886noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2657266526705426756.post-34852857531064488832012-12-05T12:15:31.710-05:002012-12-05T12:15:31.710-05:00Ehh... the odds aren't _that_ bad on item cre...Ehh... the odds aren't _that_ bad on item creation. Alex just hit item creation level, and while he is basically optimal for it, he still has a a better than even chance to make first-level scrolls, potions, or other stuff. He's also at 12+ to copy the wish scroll, which is not too shabby... Samples and formulae provide a huge benefit in terms of time and gold expenditures. Making the sword +1 I think you're talking about is only 2500 GP and two weeks if you already have a sword +1. That's actually not terrible for +1 to hit and damage for a fighter; certainly you're not levelling every other week of adventuring, generally. Better still, because of some weirdness in the way magic item creation times are calculated, making a duplicate of the spear +2 would cost 7500 and take 9 days, and Alex would be on 9+ to create... even in expectation, this is a fair bit cheaper than what Tim bought it for.<br /><br />Also, the flip side of "you can only make things based on the stuff you've killed recently" is "if you want to make X, go find Y." The monster bits requirement can therefore serve as an adventure-motivator (also, pursuant to wish-copying, I have determined the location of at least one genie). Also, good thing there's about three months of mandated downtime per game year (nevermind recovery times due to crippling injuries to other critical members of the party). In any case, I don't think the magic item creation rules are punitively difficult; weird and annoying sometimes, yes. Stupid hard and necessarily terribad, not so sure.<br /><br />And yeah, retired wizards are totally supposed to send people looking for monster bits, or to clear out their dungeons. This is where quests of that form come from; there haven't been any in this campaign because there aren't a whole lot of high-level wizards around.jedavishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08586249502818922886noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2657266526705426756.post-45123919132913700912012-12-05T10:57:37.981-05:002012-12-05T10:57:37.981-05:00I am a big proponent of magic item creation being ...I am a big proponent of magic item creation being available from level 1, for several reasons. 1) most games don't last into the high levels, so why hide all that interesting content? 2) In mythology, magic is more often stored in objects rather than just being power that can be thrown around. 3) Creation provides a very "sims-like" experience of being part of and affecting the game world.<br /><br />I'm still personally experimenting with various creation systems that are reasonably powered. For one thing, I use Holmes scroll creation rules (100 GP + 1 week per spell level) and allow magic-users to scribe scrolls of above-level spells, assuming they have a grimoire with the appropriate spell. This essentially turns high level spells into rituals for low level magic-users, which I like a lot.<br /><br />Also, as I only give XP for spending GP, players are constantly looking for ways to spend money, and creating magic items seems to give what feels like a good return on investment. In other words, character naturally <i>become</i> higher level through the process of making magic items rather than having only high level characters able to create magic items.Necropraxishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12716340801054739658noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2657266526705426756.post-20637444653841653122012-12-05T10:43:50.171-05:002012-12-05T10:43:50.171-05:00I had always figured that the magic item XP costs ...I had always figured that the magic item XP costs were there to offset the level drain acquired by fighters when they died (since presumably the rest of the party would just leave when the fighter died rather than continuing to fight, and all other party members have escape methods other than "run away"). The level adjustment thing is interesting, though. <br /><br />As for ACKS item creation, of course most of us aren't doing it. I haven't read all of the rules, but it sounds like it stinks. You have to be stupidly high level in order to have any chance of actually succeeding at item creation (and only one party member is so leveled at this point, and even that's debatable). You have to expend an enormous amount of out-of-combat resources in order to do it, putting your character on standby while the rest of the party has fun (which might work if you've got a wizard henchmen, but then they don't level anywhere near fast enough to get decent item creation rates). And finally, the things you can create are limited by the kind of monsters you've managed to defeat lately. Not even just defeat, either - you have to drag home specific monster bits along with all of the treasure you're already trying to lug out of there, and if you ask the rest of the party which is more valuable, everyone will agree that the treasure comes first. It seems to me like the designers did that _deliberately_ to discourage players from attempting to create magic items. Why else would you require so many resources to get a +5% chance to deal 1d6+2 damage, when you could get the same reward faster by using all of those resources you would have spent just dungeon-delving? Sure, the utility of having potions or scrolls could be useful, but having the wizard around to help with adventuring, _especially_ a high-level wizard, instantly offsets that. <br /><br />Actually, it may be the case that item creation is deliberately for retired wizards - if you've gotten to the King stage of the game and all of the former player characters are rulers and don't have any wars to fight, and you make a new character, then the wizard is the one that says "go out and bring me 10 orc heads and I will pay you 500 gold and give you a healing potion" or whatever. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2657266526705426756.post-63912751293036337352012-12-05T09:47:48.166-05:002012-12-05T09:47:48.166-05:00I kind of expected something along these lines to ...I kind of expected something along these lines to pop up... consider it edited! And yeah, my knowledge of 2e is basically nonexistent. Thanks for the correction!jedavishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08586249502818922886noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2657266526705426756.post-61792837987664158742012-12-05T07:31:39.327-05:002012-12-05T07:31:39.327-05:00During AD&D 2nd edition, TSR published some sp...During AD&D 2nd edition, TSR published some spell points systems in the book titled "Spells & Magic". The book "Complete Psionic's Handbook" gave psionic powers which you spent PSP (Psionic Strength Points) to use.<br />Official point-based spell & power systems predate the 3rd edition of D&D.Eric M. Paquettehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15351460292162533027noreply@blogger.com